S8 E1: Sport & Performance Psychology w/Dr. Edson Filho and Dr. Carly Block
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Dr. Edson Filho is an associate professor of sport, exercise & performance psychology at Boston University, where he is also the director of the Performance, Recovery & Optimization (PRO) Lab. Dr. Filho’s research centers on performance optimization in individual and team settings. He studies the individual and shared zones of optimal functioning as well as the relationship among team processes (e.g., cohesion, team mental models, and collective efficacy). He is also interested in developing applied interventions for performance optimization and mental health for athletes and performers across domains.
Dr. Filho is the author of over 100 manuscripts and book chapters and has edited three books on: mental skills training in sports, research directions in the field, and sport psychophysiology. He is a Certified Mental Performance Consultant by the Association for Applied Sport Psychology and an Established Supervisor and Established Practitioner registered with the International Society of Sport Psychology. DR. Filho is a Chartered Sport and Exercise Psychologist registered in the United Kingdom. He has worked as a consultant for professional, collegiate, and amateur athletes. His work on performance optimization has been funded by the Union of European Football Associations (UEFA) and the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) and been featured in media outlets including BBC Latin America, the Boston Globe, Nature Lindau, and Scientific American.
Dr. Carly Block is a Lecturer in Sport and Performance Psychology at Boston University Wheelock College of Education & Human Development, where she teaches and supervises graduate students in the Counseling/Sport Psychology program. She earned her doctorate in Sport Psychology from Florida State University and her master’s degree in Sport Psychology from Miami University.Dr. Block’s research aligns with her theory-to-practice approach, focusing on developing evidence-based psychological interventions for specific populations in sport, such as goalkeepers and perfectionistic athletes. She has coauthored manuscripts published in peer-reviewed journals and has presented at national and international conferences in the field of sport psychology.
Dr. Block is also a Certified Mental Performance Consultant® through the Association for Applied Sport Psychology and has spent over the past 10 years working with athletes and performers. She has extensive experience consulting with collegiate, competitive youth, and professional athletes and performers at both the individual and team level. Through her applied work and private practice, she is passionate about helping clients improve self-awareness, enhance enjoyment and performance, and build life skills that extend beyond sport and performance settings.
https://www.bu-prolab.org/team
https://www.bu.edu/wheelock/profile/edson-filho/
https://appliedsportpsych.org/certification/mentor-directory/profile/4423
https://www.bu.edu/wheelock/profile/carly-block/
https://appliedsportpsych.org/certification/mentor-directory/profile/8992
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A sport psychology consultation (non-licensed) focuses specifically on improving performance within a sport or performance-based environment, while also enhancing their well-being within the sport. A sport psychologist or licensed provider (e.g., LMHC) may help with the same areas; however, they can also provide support around mental health issues, which may or may not relate to one’s sport environment and experience. Mental health issues may
It is important to determine the scope of practice and competence for the provider you choose.
Different countries may have different regulations around bounds of competence.
The idea of Flow in performance is when an individual experiences an inner calmness, in the moment, and completely absorbed in the task at hand (among other aspects).
Dr. Edson grew up playing soccer as a kid in Brazil. He was fascinated by the experience of Flow.
It is important to note that athletes should not be expected to be in Flow all the time. The ideal goal is to understand what allows you to get into the Flow state and use that awareness to get back into it whenever you can. However, it is also not necessary to always be in the flow state where your prefrontal cortex activation decreases (part of brain that is conscious and allows for planning, organization, etc.) to be more automatic. There will be times when you need to be more conscious and analytical in your thinking.
Dr. Block found her way into the field through her curiosity and experience/interest in sports matched with her passion for helping others.
Many of the students in their BU program mention they had their own experience working with a sport psych professional led them to want to give back and enter the field.
Flow involves 3 descriptions of Flow:
Neuro-efficicency: your brain is quieter
Neuro-proficiency: your brain is used a lot
Transient Hypo-frontality:
Performers can get into the ‘hero archetype’ and feel they always need to be in the flow mindset. This can create perfectionism and make you try to over-control everything, which can actually impair performance and can make you less likely to stay in Flow. Rather, perform at a functional level to get one step higher and one step higher.
Alexis shares how learners may always be told to focus, focus, focus; which can be an unrealistic expectation to constantly be hyper-focused.
It is important to qualify your values - “Why are you doing this, anyway?”
Being a perfectionist can actually interfere with self-regulating and ‘riding the waves’ when things are not going well. The ability to be vulnerable is an important foundation to self-regulation so that you do not ‘fall apart’ the moment things do not work out the way you hoped.
Self-awareness and vulnerability go hand in hand to help you self-regulate.
“Everything is connected” in terms of performance psychology - goal setting, motivation, Flow, confidence, self-talk, etc.
Confidence is task-specific - i.e., self-efficacy. You may be confident at one specific task or part of a task (or role), but not another task or part of a task (or role). This comes from the theory of Dr. Alfred Bandura.
Confidence is not a ‘global feeling’ or an all-or-nothing. Someone acting confident across every domain, every aspect of everything, and every area of life may be masking insecurity and be a false sense of confidence.
Lack of confidence or anxiety may come from a lack of skill or preparation. Something may need to be refined or expanded upon to feel more confident.
Athletes may say “I don’t trust myself” “I don’t feel confident.”
It can help to break down and identify sources of self-efficacy. One of which is performance accomplishments, or, past success doing the task like in practice or in a past performance. “I have done this or I have done something similar.” Visualization and conversation about this can help. Positive self-talk can help in a similar way: e.g., “I trust my preparation leading up to this” is a common idea in sport psychology.
Another common source of self-efficacy is the psychological and emotional experiences that are present when we perform our best. The Individualized Zone of Optimal Functioning (IZOF) is individualized to the performer and takes time to reflect upon and learn about through experience.
Generally, everyone needs help in some capacity to learn and develop their mentality; even the highest of performers. Help can look different for different individuals. There are different types of challenges, internal and/or external in the environment.
Sometimes individuals need space to sit back and reflect. The ingredients and the mental skills may differ in terms of the type and the timing and the influences. Reflecting and learning can happen not only when things are going wrong or bad but when things are going well.
It is important to increase access for sport psychology professionals across areas not just in sports, but also in exercise, performing arts, etc. especially for youth.
It is important to be proactive, not just focus on problems after they have them. Prioritize mental skills and team building in a proactive way as much as you are reactive to issues as they arise. There are different ingredients for different individuals and teams.
For teams, some ingredients include: Team cohesion - why people stick together on a team; Collective efficacy - we can do it and we will do it; Coordination - being at the right place at the right time and doing the right thing; Team knowledge -
Different athletes/performers even on the same team can have different ‘ingredients’ that contribute to getting into the Flow state more often.
As a performer, things can happen so fast and so emotional triggers and challenges can happen in a split second. Even a split second of dissonance or confusion can contribute to falling out of a natural state of performing. It happens so fast, which can prevent them from reflecting and learning from those experiences and figuring out what can help them cope better in specific situations. Having the space to work with a sport psychology consultant can help the individual to reflect in a calm and reflective way to better understand their patterns and reactions. Coaches may not have the time, resources, or ability to help the athlete/performer to do this type of reflection in practice.
Self-awareness is necessary to self-regulate.
There may not be enough time that is dedicated to the mental aspect of performance by the coach and system and/or they may not be a sport psychology consultant available. There are athletic trainers on sports teams but oftentimes not sport psychology personnel.
Sport psychology can be integrated into a system proactively from the start just as physical fitness programs are prioritized.
Even having a plan for how to support injured athletes is important, as it can be a very difficult mental challenge that coaches and teammates may not know how to navigate or address.
Self-awareness and improvements in the mental aspects of performance is not a quick fix or happen fast. Furthermore, self-awareness is a collaborative process that requires open dialogue.
As Dr. John McCarthy talked about on the Psychology of Athletic Coaching episode, a culture is strongest when everyone not only buys in but also positively reinforces the culture.
The mind-body is not divided, which can be a stigma that prevents the integration of sport psychology.
It can also help to collaborate with other professionals; such as the collaboration between sport psychology professionals and athletic trainer, coaches, exercise scientists, and strength training coaches. Collaboration helps to identify possible areas of challenges and needs from a psychological standpoint before stepping in and trying to help a system before understanding the system.
Sport psychology consultants can make observations in practices and competitions to notice patterns to inform how they interact with and intervene with the athletes and teams.
Lazarus stress and coping model suggests that the way we appraise a stressful situation determines how we feel about the situation. This happens subconsciously. The first step is determining 1) Is this important? And then 2) what are the demands and what are my resources? In turn, we can perceive situations as either a challenge or a threat. If approached as a threat, the demands outweigh our perceived resources and abilities, which elicits stress and anxiety. If approached as a challenge, the demands are met with perceived resources (tools, skills, support, etc.) to handle the demands. Individuals can learn what the demands and needed resources are to fill up more resources to tip the scale to perceive situations as a challenge whereby stress is felt as ‘positive’ and helpful to taking on the challenge with excitement and eagerness. The way we interpret our feelings can determine how we approach a situation
It is also important to be task-focused rather than ego-focused. Individuals can learn what goes into the task to feel more prepared for the demands rather than worrying about ego concerns (e.g., being judged,losing a sense of self, etc.).
The coach can create an environment where the individuals are becoming resilient by creating appropriate challenges while also providing the appropriate supports to meet those challenges. There can be nuance to understanding what is an appropriate challenge and also what are resources that are needed; it may be physical, mental, tactical, technical, etc. Finding that sweet spot is called the Zone of Proximal Development.
Giving and receiving feedback to understand issues, and make adjustments to meet challenges and develop resources is important. Having a supportive and trusting relationship can allow for feedback to be effectively sent and received and integrated. As Dr. John McCarthy pointed out in our previous episode how coaching is mostly about teaching and learning, which sets the stage of feedback being given and received and integrated in an effective way. There is a whole science of how feedback is processed in the brain.
Leadership is important for the system to work.
Transitions are so important and impactful. There are constant transitions as an athlete and performer. It is important to learn how to make adjustments and transitions. Sometimes you can prepare for them; sometimes you can overestimate your ability to recover from challenges.
Preparation can help to reduce anxiety. At the same time, anxiety can be a given regardless of preparation. Anxiety can come from a lot of different places.
Reflection brings self-awareness, such as considering what you are thinking, feeling, and doing when things are going well versus when things are not going well. Even what you are not thinking about or worrying about. With the awareness you can acknowledge what you want to do with this awareness. It becomes a choice of what to do. We are all human and it’s not always possible to utilize this awareness, but it gives us the opportunity.
Performers may already have strengths and go-to mental skills to utilize. Even a simple gesture our physical routine to trigger a ‘reset’ to refocus yourself and your energy.
Setting goals does not only need to be team-oriented, it can be individual to the athlete/performer. There may not be much attention or education on settings and identifying the process toward attaining those goals.
Self-compassion can be a useful strategy to turn down the overly-critical self-talk.
It is important to normalize having a mental repertoire needed to perform their best consistently. Even the best athletes have always needed to develop their own strategies and mental tools.
We can change the relationship we have with our thoughts rather than fighting against them or attaching to them. This comes from the mindfulness literature. It is easy to notice every thought that goes through your head and make meaning out of it, which may not be necessary and actually may be unhelpful. So the idea to change the way we relate to the thoughts that pop into our minds. You can allow thoughts to come and go and determine what you will or will not focus on or attach to. This can be practiced in everyday life.
When performing you can prioritize giving your attention and energy to what you are doing, especially if you care about the task at hand you can absorb yourself in the task without concern for the outcome or being watched, etc.
Burnout can come from so many different places. It is very important and deserves our attention. Over time, it is not uncommon, especially in environments that are not psychologically supportive, for burnout to happen over time even if initially there is joy in the sport/activity.
It is easy for an athlete/performer to feel like getting to the pinnacle, top of the mountain, is the only idea of ‘success’. This is very unhelpful and can easily lead to devastation if that does not happen. Even more, even if it does happen, there are plenty of examples of athletes/performers who do make it to the top but have sacrificed so much of their life to get there that they are left with feeling unfulfilled in the end, lacking depth in their relationships and meaning in their life beyond external validation.
So much research over the decades points to relationships being one of the most important factors that brings well-being and fulfillment and meaning in life.
Sport CAN BE an incredible context for people and groups of people. We can aspire to make that be the case even though there can be many examples of negative experiences that happen (that we cannot be naive about). Let’s believe in sports and have hope for sport to bring positivity to youth and individuals.
The field of sport psychology needs athletes and those involved in sport and performance settings to contribute to research. The science-backing of sport psychology is important to solidify. More research can contribute to increasing access and spreading more sport psychology services.
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Alexis Reid 00:09
welcome back to the Reid connected podcast, co hosted by myself, educational therapist Alexis Reid and my brother, licensed psychologist Dr Gerald Reid. We're providing you with an expert in nuanced discussion on topics relevant to mental health, education and sport and performance psychology.
Gerald Reid 00:26
Today's topic will be about sport and performance psychology. More specifically, we're going to be joined by two professors from Boston University who are experts in the field of sport psychology, who have dedicated their professional efforts to understanding the psychology of performance through their research and practice. Additionally, we're going to have an open discussion about the vast research and theory that makes up the field of sport and performance psychology, while our season seven episode focus on the mental health of athletes. This episode will be geared towards the concepts, skills and strategies that have been found to be beneficial for athletes in terms of their performance and their given sport. It should be noted that this discussion can easily transfer into other realms of performance, even outside of athletics, such as musical performances, public speaking, other forms of performing arts and any performance based tasks, including academics and education.
Alexis Reid 01:19
I'm super excited to have the three of you here together, and I'm just going to introduce one of our guests that are here today, Dr Carly block. Doc block is a lecturer in sports and performance psychology at Boston University, Wheelock College of Education and Human Development, where she teaches and supervises graduate students in the counseling Sports Psychology program. She earned her doctorate in sports psychology from Florida State University and her master's degree in sports psychology from Miami University. Carly's research aligns with her theory to practice approach, focusing on developing evidence based psychological interventions for specific populations in sport, such as goalkeepers and perfectionistic athletes, one of my favorite topics. She has co authored manuscripts published in peer reviewed journals and has presented at national and international conferences in the field of sports psychology. Carly is also a certified mental performance consultant through the Association for Applied sports psychology and has spent over the past 10 years working with athletes and performers. She has extensive experience consulting with collegiate, competitive, youth and professional athletes and performers at both the individual and team level. Through her applied work and private practice, she is passionate about helping clients improve self awareness, enhance enjoyment and performance and build life skills that extend beyond sport and performance settings.
Gerald Reid 02:46
Our next guest, Dr Edson filo is an associate professor of sport, exercise and performance psychology at Boston University, where he's also the director of the performance, recovery and optimization pro lab. Dr Philo's research centers on performance optimization in individual and team settings. He studies the individual and shared zones of optimal functioning, as well as a relationship among team processes such as cohesion team mental models and collective efficacy. He's also interested in developing applied interventions for performance optimization and mental health for athletes and performance across domains. Dr Philo is the author of over 100 manuscripts and book chapters, and he has edited three books on mental skills training in sport research directions in the field and sport psycho physiology. He is a certified mental performance consultant by the Association for Applied sports psychology and an established supervisor and established practitioner registered with the International Society of sports psychology. Dr Philo is a chartered Sport and Exercise psychologist registered in the in the UK. He has worked as a consultant for professional, collegiate and amateur athletes. His work on performance optimization has been funded by the Union of European Football Associations and the National Collegiate Athletic Association the NCAA. He has been featured in media outlets including the BCC Latin America, the Boston Globe, nature, Lindau and Scientific America, we are so excited to talk about the field of sports psychology and all your expertise. This is a topic that I believe a lot of people are interested in, but if they're not really involved in athletics, or have had the access or the opportunity to work with a sports psychology consultant or someone in the field, maybe it's a little bit of a mystery about what it really means to, you know, be involved in the mental aspects of performance. So I'm excited for you to shed the light on this topic.
Dr. Carly Block 04:58
Yeah, thank you so much for. Having us. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for the invitation.
Alexis Reid 05:02
I would just say too. I mean, part of the reason we have this podcast is to bring people in the field together who we have the privilege to know and to talk through things with, but we don't often have this opportunity to come together and talk like this. So I'm especially excited because you guys probably see each other at least a little bit more than I do at BU when you're on campus or through your shared students that you work with. But I'm really excited to jump in on this conversation too, because performance and motivation and engagement and how we, you know, protect ourselves mentally, I don't think really gets discussed enough, especially from an athletic performance side of things, whereas you might hear in so many different media outlets about how we take care of our bodies physically. But I think this is just as important. So I'm really excited for us to have this conversation. And I have to just say, out of the gates, I know you guys are ready to pop off on this discussion, and I am too, but out of the gates, I'm going to put you both on the spot. Can we talk a little bit about the distinction of a of a sport and performance psychology based consultant, consultant versus sports psychologist, and the differences in the field, because I think there's also a lot of confusion around what the specific designation and the role really means, and who might access that.
Dr. Carly Block 06:19
Alexis, I really appreciate you bringing that up, because, yes, I feel like half my job is always having to explain the difference, or say, you know, yes, I know my degree is in sports psychology, but I'm not a sports psychologist, and so how I best explain it. And Edson, feel free to, you know, continue off on. What I'm saying is, you know, with my degree, my role and my background, my goal is really helping athletes enhance their performance and also their enjoyment in their sport through the use of mental skills. And so I think where it's tricky and gets confusing, and what you talked a lot last week in athlete mental health on your podcast is it is holistic, like you can't separate the athlete from the human, right. So things day to day are going to come up in their lives that are impacting their sport, maybe their sports impacting their outside life. But I think the biggest difference is separating is we're not licensed psychologists, so if I do have an athlete and that same athlete is struggling, like it's not just my exam, I'm really dealing with more anxiety. There's a lot of family life happening, and it's not necessarily impacting their sport anymore, and it's more outside, that's when I would refer right? So it's, I think that's probably the big difference, and then especially to, like, more severe mental health issues, like depression, general anxiety, suicide, are things outside of our realm, eating disorders, eating disorders, right? Like common things you're seeing with athletes. And so I think that's where it separates. It doesn't mean we're not knowledgeable or educational to know the signs and assess, but it's just not within our competencies to really treat. And that's where we think it's better fit if we would refer. So I don't know if I explained that Well, I know I rambled
Alexis Reid 07:55
a little bit, but no, I think that was perfect. And in fact, it's so similar to my my work too, because educational therapy sounds like it's clinical, but it really isn't. So there's that distinction too that I'm constantly describing. So you know, how do we understand the differences between the two and educate people so they know really like who to consult with and how to get the process started? So thank you
Dr. Edson Filho 08:15
for that. Yep. I mean, Dr block did a wonderful job explaining this. I think the key word, to me is scope of practice. Do you understand the scope of practice? And can you explain that to your clients? And I think Dr block made a great differentiation between mental performance and mental health issues, so understanding that this falls within your continuum, and everything's interconnected. But again, you want to work with the professional that has that expertise. One thing I would add is that we are in a very big world, and different countries have different regulations. So we have students from we have international students. I'm a global citizen of the world, studying different countries, so understanding how that happens in the US or in the UK, or in Australia or in Brazil, whatever it might be, is also important. So keep that in mind, because, again, it's a global market, you know, and sometimes you graduate from in Boston, but it might work in the UK. So under having this understanding is
Gerald Reid 09:14
very important. Really great point, perfectly said. So we're going to focus on the mental skills. We can kind of begin the conversation. Since you have expertise in this, where did your interest in this topic come from? I think sometimes people have different ways of finding this field. I certainly didn't know about it until I knew about it, like, oh, wow, that's like a field, you know. So certainly something interesting to start off on. So what you know? What got you started? I know. I'll say real quick. Ed said, I know you said that you grew up watching the Brazil soccer team and the football team and wondering just part of me that wanted them to play better. That's why they're successful.
Dr. Edson Filho 09:56
Look 100% you know, I always say when I give down. And some people may have heard that before I grew up playing soccer, that was a safe place for me. I felt so happy, and it was fascinated by being flow, right? And sometimes I was I played up front, so that's one second before we scored a goal that you knew it's going to be a goal already. You know it's over for the goalkeeper. I love that feeling. I love being flow. And I think we want to be in flow. So that's what my research comes about.
Alexis Reid 10:27
Can you can you define what flow is for those of
Dr. Edson Filho 10:30
so getting the zone, there is other theories there. It's about peak performance experience. Right? When you're feeling your best, you're feeling confident, you're present full attention. There is an autotelic motivation or experience that you doing because you want to do it, not to make anybody happy, you know, mom or papa, whoever might be. So I love that feeling because, you know, time flies by or slows down. So I was fascinated by studying that. And a lot of things need to align for you to be there. You are not supposed to be in flow all the time. That's a misconception, right? That goes along with the perfection is fallacy, but I'm interested in that. And again, many things have to align for you to be there. And I think that's what all comes from. But I started sports psychology when I am originally from Brazil, and in the first semester of undergrad class, a professor comes and talk about sports Psych. It was fascinating, right? And after that, I jumped into sports psych, and I haven't left. So two points, I'm fascinated by flow, good mentors are very important. If you wanted to get into the field, you want to get well trained. And the other thing I like to say, when I started, many years ago, now, the field was called sport psychology, and now it's called sport exercise. And performance psychology, you can look at a pH vision 47 right? So first they thought, Look, there is a specific challenge for sport. And then, oh, that also applies to exercise. And now there's also applies to performance broadly conceived might be the military might be performance artists might be musicians. So it's exciting to see the field grow. And again, I think one of the one of the goals of any consultant is to get people in those, you know, healthy and peak performance experience states.
Gerald Reid 12:23
Could you imagine an athlete being in flow all the time?
Dr. Edson Filho 12:30
Well, that is, that is a great question, because, you know, you want to get people as often as possible into flow experience, right? And when you get out of it, can you get back? I think that's, you know, the ideal goal. But it is important to emphasize that from a neuro perspective, you're not supposed to always be there, because you kind of silent your frontal cortex, right? You call neuro efficiency hypothesis, hyper frontality hypothesis. So you need to have to use a prefrontal cortex to do stuff. But when you are in flow, you kind of go to the automatic experience. But what you want to do, you want to increase the functional performance of athletes so they can get in flow as much as possible. And I tell others, look, you can get it by the door right, if you align all these things, and eventually you enter right. Because if you try to get in flow. You get out of it, but yeah?
Gerald Reid 13:23
Well, yeah, let's come back to flow. I want to kind of come back feel like flow is kind of like what we're aiming for, and everything we talk about perhaps is going to be kind of leading towards that in our discussion. So Carly, tell us about your your journey, and you know, your interest in this field, yeah.
Dr. Carly Block 13:37
And I think I mean similarities, like what you said, Jerry, I didn't know what sports psychology was until I was in it. And so for me, similar to Edson, and probably anyone in the field, I grew up as an athlete, huge sports fanatic, go birds. And so it really came time. My freshman year, Florida State had the exploratory major, which is a nice way of saying you don't know what you want to do with your life. And I know I enjoyed psychology, but I didn't really know what I wanted to do, and so I googled, search, sports and helping people. And that's when sports psychology popped up. I'm like, What is sports psychology? Sports and helping Yeah, I like sports. I like helping people. Can I make a job out of this? And that's when sports psychology popped up. So I went to the advisors in the psychology department, and they said, We don't know what that is, but it looks like there is a sports psychology graduate program across the street here at Florida State. So I'm like, Cool. So I went over, I talked to the Program Chair at the time, and I was like, a little freshman, all excited, similar to what I'm hearing now all the time when I meet with prospective students and I'm like, hi, I want to know what sports psychology is. And he goes to me, you know, most people come into my office and they say they want to be the sports psychologist for the New York Knicks. Well, that's not going to happen. And I just thought I found my dream job. I'm like, I'm going to be the sports psych for the Philadelphia Eagles. This is so cool. But he said, Just get involved. And I think. Like, you'll be successful. And so that's exactly what I did. I got involved with the grad program, I took their classes, became a research assistant, and just fell in love with the sport, I mean, with the field. And so I think from there, it was just the education, the curiosity, which really led me to where I am today. And you know, I'm probably staying with you and Edson, you can agree with this, like, I always was told, like, you can't do what you want to do without a PhD. So I think that was always my goal and determination of getting to where I am, and in the field is just continuing education to help others. And I think what's really cool with our field now, like growing, like Edson said, with performance Psych and exercise psych, but what I'm also noticing when I'm doing these applications and interviews with our students, they're now saying the reason they want to get into the field is because they had a sports psych or a mental performance consultant, which, you know, 1015, years ago, the reasons were very similar to what I was saying or what Edson was saying. And I think it just shows like even in the short period of time, our field is growing and growing, which is really cool, but
Gerald Reid 16:00
what a great point you just made, that it's, it's almost like they want to give back what and that actually says how valuable this is for people and athletes that they've experienced it, and they're like, Wow, this is valuable for me. I want to, I mean, just the fact that they want to give back shows how valuable it really is. Thank you for sharing that. And I love how you said you kind of just carved your path, and you just, you know, pursued what you were passionate about, and things worked out.
Dr. Carly Block 16:24
I think that's most important. Is passion. Like, I'm sure we'll talk about that a lot
Alexis Reid 16:29
today, but I think that's so important. I just, I want to put a little plug in, because I talk to so many students all the time who are like, you know, I've got my big five options of what I can do with the rest of my life. And I'm like, Well, what else do you care about? Because even within you know, the medicine field, the law field, the business field, the psychology field, there's so much nuance and niche that you could potentially explore. And even within sports psychology, I'm sure we'll hear more about some of the specifics of teams and athletes you've worked with. But there's so many options available that, you know, being curious, carving your own path. I mean, that's how Jerry and I ended up where we are, is we really developed our own programs for ourselves to gain the expertise that we needed to get to this? Well, I did, at least Jerry had a more a more traditional path than I did, but really like carving your own path to figuring out what feels good. Because ultimately, I think, you know, I feel this way. I think you both do too. We're so blessed and lucky to be able to do work that we really care about and we're so passionate about, and I think that can get lost in the mix of like working and striving for what comes next, so in the realm of performance and looking inward to figure out what makes the most sense for you. I think that's also a huge inspirational point from the both of you sharing your stories. So thank you absolutely.
Gerald Reid 17:47
Cool. All right, so, so let's think about how we can provide some education about mental skills and performance. So if flow is kind of like an ideal state that athletes can or performance can be in, you had mentioned that it's actually not realistic nor necessary to always be in flow. And you had mentioned, I just want to repeat, because I think sometimes the listeners will say, I kind of need you to kind of repeat things that you're saying, because we're learning so much. So you had said that when we're in flow, the prefrontal cortex, which is the part that Alexis helps students and learners to to activate, which is like, planning, organization, am I getting this right? Prioritizing, strategizing, right? Those are all the
Alexis Reid 18:28
behaviors related to it, for sure, right?
Gerald Reid 18:31
Which is the prefrontal cord you're saying, when you're in flow, that part of your brain kind of just goes away, because I'm going to guess you're going to tell me, right? Everything is more intuitive and just automatic in some ways, and too much thinking, too much conscious thought, actually gets in the way of allowing your body to do what it can do naturally and trusting that. But you're saying it's actually important to, at times, use your executive functions, because sport involves a lot of different aspects. So so can you say more? Just about that as a theme first, so we can kind of set the stage, because there's so much that goes into performing. It's not just being in flow.
Dr. Edson Filho 19:07
Yeah, I don't want to oversimplify, but that is, there is three big words that we describe. You know, when you study in flow, neuro efficiency, so your brain is kind of quiet, neuro proficiency, using it a lot, and there is this idea of transient hypofrontality, so it's complex, like your brain is working a lot, but compared to when you are underperforming, it's a little bit more quiet mode. So I want to make this distinction. But most importantly, it's because people get into that hero archetype that I always have to be perfect, I always have to be in flow, and that's very problematic. What we want is to increase the level of functionality performing at the functional level. Can you go one step higher and can get one step higher? So that's very important, because it's called The Paradox of control. When you try to get in flow, when you try to be perfect, you know, things happen the other way around. It's kind of ironic theory, right? They always say, don't think about the white bear, right? So it's, it's for many reasons. So first, you don't need to be perfect all the time. Second to your brain was not, you know, Gina not evolved for you to always be, you know, in flow, you know, and and third, if you, if you try to be perfect and in flow, you actually are more likely to get out of it. So I think it's all of those factors need to be considered. But if I can say one thing, I going to repeat myself, this idea that we got to be perfect and always in flow is not good. It actually gets you out of there. But the neuroscience is complex. The many papers out
Alexis Reid 20:50
there, I was just gonna add I, you know, especially with the work I do and the people I work with, they're constantly told to focus, focus, focus. You have to, you know, put your full effort work towards your potential. So they think that's the expectation that I always need to be at this level. And I always tell them, I'm like, if, if you were functioning, if I were functioning like that all the time, it would be so exhausting, and you wouldn't actually give yourself an opportunity to expand and grow in the experience, because you're overly focused on doing things in such a way.
Dr. Edson Filho 21:22
Yeah, if I, if I may, I think, please, the very important thing is to clarify your values, right? Why are you doing it for? You ask a lot of athletes why you're doing it for, and they forgot, right? When you grow up playing you're doing because you love it. So I think that's a first step that's very helpful.
Gerald Reid 21:42
Here's, here's the art, here's kind of the irony of what we're talking about is that you're saying, you know, if you get out of flow, right? You want to be able to kind of regulate yourself. You know, this kind of things that you were, you you guys understand, is to, like, we have to learn how to self regulate. And you're saying, if you're a perfectionist, it actually impedes your ability to self regulate and kind of ride those waves, right? And the irony here is, I think we're always kind of told, like, be confident. Be confident. And on the other side of the spectrum, we're told be vulnerable, be vulnerable. I think it's a conflicting, like, two opposing messages that we get in the performance arts is, like, what do you do with that? Like, could you be both at the same time? But, and, you know, Carly, you're going to talk a lot about this, it's like, you need to learn how to be vulnerable, so that when things don't work out the way that you want them to, you can stay grounded. And I think grounded is probably the best word for that, to be able to self regulate, because if you fall apart the moment things don't go well. As you're saying, it's going to be hard to kind of get back into that, whatever kind of state you want to get into.
Dr. Carly Block 22:46
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's vulnerability and self awareness too, right? And hand in hand, like, is it being vulnerable in self awareness that brings confidence. There's confidence bringing that. And I think just going with the flow state and how the mental skills come in it is what I tell my students, our clients, when it's when it's flow, like, flow is that outcome, right? Like, almost like uncontrollable, just like perfectionism. I mean, a little bit different, because we know we can get in flow state, but we can't become perfect. It's just not real. So it's exactly that, like, what are the tools? What is the process and skills you can set up for your success to hit that, and if you don't hit that, that's okay, but at least you have the self awareness, you're vulnerable and open to that change and to that process to really obtain it. I always say, like with flow, like I picture it like, think of a ladder and like, you see a door at the top, and you want to get it. That's the flow state. And so how mental performance consultants or how athletes can get there is really focusing on things that are in their control, doing the mental skills that focus, you said, but not to focus for flow. Focus to be my best, or the best I can be at the moment, and hopefully the flow comes with it. And what an added bonus. I don't know, I love how you phrase that Edson of just like, it's not always attainable, it's probably not always best, but what are we doing that's consistent? I think, is what can lead to it, but it shouldn't be the focus or then it's what we're talking about.
Dr. Edson Filho 24:03
And if I may, I tell my students, if anybody's listening, everything is connected, right? Goal setting is connected. Motivation, which is connective, burnout, which is connecting with everything. If you really read the literature, everything's connected.
Gerald Reid 24:17
Can you can you explain that for the audience,
Dr. Carly Block 24:20
classic Edson, I always hear from my students, that's what Dr feeler says. Everything's connected.
Dr. Edson Filho 24:26
Everything's connected like, for instance, motivation is connected with burnout. If you're doing something you don't like, eventually you burn out. Goal setting is connected. Motivation. If you have high quality goals, you have better motivation. Goal setting is connected. Goal, if cohesion, if you have low level goals. You cannot get people together on those goals. So everything is connected. And I tell my students, you got to read, read, read, read, and then read some more. So you understand these connections. But one connection when I make is about the confidence piece, right? If you read the Bandura, you got to read the guy. I mean, hundreds and. 1000s of citations. So the most free thing, one of the most interesting things I learned is that confidence is task specific, right? We call self efficacy, and is a free thought. To me, you might be very confident driving, but not confident cooking. You might very confident presenting, but not confident you know, I don't know, doing something else. And I think that's very important, right? I worked with somebody at some point, he would fly planes, you know, those planes of three pilots, and you know, he'll get his schedule, I don't know, 48 hours before going to South Africa, going to Brazil. And he was confident he would find this big thing over there, right? But if I brought him to the podcast, he wouldn't be as confident speaking. So I think that's, it's a simple point, but it's an important point that we got to bring to athletes and performers all the time, right? Can I take
Gerald Reid 25:48
that a step further, too? So even within your roles on a sports team or in your sport, if it's individual sport, you're even pointing out like you can be confident in a particular task within the sport itself, even so it can even be boiled down to even further, specific tasks that you can be confident or not confident about. And so confidence not a global it's not a global feeling of like, Oh, I'm just this confident. And I would say that people who act confident in terms of, like, everything about themselves and every task and everything they're doing, to me that's kind of like an ego, that's almost like a false bravado trying to cover up the fact that they're not actually confident in a lot of certain things.
Alexis Reid 26:26
You also, you also made a really great point that sometimes it's about going back to the skills, thinking about your levels of goals, rather than just this ultimate attainment of, you know, the highest performance. So thinking about, you know, Can we roll it back and actually look at the pieces of the rungs of the ladder rather than only looking at the door at the top? I think that's so important. Sorry, my educational executive function mind is like chunking it all out and being like, okay, because we talk about this all the time, that a lot of times, lack of confidence or anxiety can come from a lack of skill, right? And it's really important to look at the bigger picture, because, again, you could have the confidence in one aspect of a sport or anything you're performing at, but the bigger picture of what else you need to put that in play in context, can be lacking or needs to be refined or needs to be expanded on. And I'd love to hear more about how you put that into play with the work you do, with the people you work with.
Dr. Carly Block 27:24
Want me to take it right? I think that's the most common thing where you're seeing with athletes and performers, I don't trust myself, I don't believe in myself. Everything's linked to confidence. And I think Alexis, you said it really well, like in order to get that outcome, where I always tell my clients, I'm like, That's great. You want to win the sport, but we actually have to get there. We have to walk up the ladder in order to be successful. So how do we focus on those skills? And I always, when I'm working with my athletes, come back, actually, good segue from Bandura self efficacy model, or even really is sport confidence model, is really understanding and breaking down the different sources that can lead to that confidence. And so I kind of picture that as the rings of the ladder, right? And it's like, okay, and actually, with the skill set you mentioned, the number one source that gives us confidence is actually performance accomplishments. And I think that goes with skills training, practice, the success. So we're not doing the thing, yeah, doing the thing. So we're not ignoring the outcome. We bring it in to show like we can do this, or we've done something similar, that's going to help, and that of just reflecting, maybe it's through visualization, conversation of what we what we've done, is such an easy, simple way to reflect on being confident. So that would be like
Gerald Reid 28:34
a performer going into a game saying, I trust my practice. I prepared a lot. I've done this in practice, therefore I can do it in the game and holding on to that.
Dr. Carly Block 28:43
And here's the example, like in 2002 I scored the game winning shot, and that can bring that even you know, that didn't happen to me, but it is like a smile. And so that's one way, right? And that's the thing. What's so nice with using the sources and actually taking the research to practice is all actually show and explain that there's different ways. Let's go through it. Where are your sources now? Another common one is those site physiological, emotional experiences. So this goes a lot with eyes off that I know Edson will talk about later. I'm sure. What do we need to feel for our best? Do we need to feel calm? Do we need to feel energetic? And that looks different for everyone, right? Like, maybe before this podcast, you all took a deep breath, but I was listening music to pump myself up, because that's what gets me feeling good. That's what brings me confidence. And so that's way of learning and building self awareness. Coming back earlier of how do we get up that ladder is, well, what do we need? What do we need to feel? What does confidence, you know, feel in our body, what does it feel in our mind? And those actually go nice with the sources. The other one is that verbal persuasion, right? And that's just not like coaches giving feedback, but that's also yourself. What are you saying to yourself? So Jerry, like you said, right? Using self talk as a way to build confidence, not just performance experiences, but what type of way do we need to talk to ourselves? And I can go on and. Unexplained every example, what the source is. But I really think it comes back to the research and back to how do we apply it to build that confidence or build that skill set that will eventually help us go up that ladder, to open that door and hopefully get flow. But I mean, it's still just a win. If you're feeling so good about yourself and success, that's great.
Dr. Edson Filho 30:19
You know, I love the ladder analogy. You know, if you look at the theory itself, there is no nine, nothing factors. You know, nine, I think steps to it. But generally, I would say that everybody needs help. I've worked at the people from different levels. You know, people going to the biggest competitions out there, and they needed help as well. So that helps may look very different, you know, there is different challenges, you know, sometimes personal challenges, sometimes task challenges. You know, the sport has a specific, you know, challenge that has to be dealt with. Sometimes the environment, you know. So all these factors interacting. But I think the, again, the one point I really want to drive is that everybody can use some help. Sometimes, you know you're beating yourself up. Your your self talk is not good. Sometimes, you know is that a relationship with the coach and the parents, you know, the coach telling you one thing, your parents telling you another thing, you think something else. Sometimes you need space to debrief and reflect. So I think that's really important. And how you know, the you know, the I don't know, the ingredients or the mental skills that you might need, might give for a little bit in terms of timing and what you need. But if you can get help, if you know you should, and you know, and that's another thing that you know, not everybody can access, you know, a good sports psychology consultant, and it should be a discussion. One of the things that, you know, I get philosophical, that I think it concerns me, is that there is, there is little funding for sports and music and arts compared to other areas, right? And what is it that brings us happiness? Right? There is less kids exercising at schools. That is. How right Can we bring more support in terms of sports psychology and other topics to everybody out there? Because the big college, the big professional things have that support, but many of the youth athletes don't have it.
Dr. Carly Block 32:27
Can I add something about the help part? I'm happy you bring that up, Edson, because, and maybe it's the difference when it comes when we came back earlier to the sports psychologist, mental performance consultant, I think help also expands when things are going well, that's the best time to seek that help, right? It ties nicely. What we're talking is, well, why are you feeling confident? You just went through this flow state? Let's learn this is the best time. And I think you see that difference. And of course, this goes like psychological, right? Like, which umbrella, you know, I think historically with psychology, it's always trying to treat the problem, right? And really, if we think positive psychology, how do we reach that optimal zone of functioning, or that happiness? And I think that's where, like the myths, the common myth of the idea of getting help is when something's wrong. So I think it's adding to that. It's like and something right is also the best time to get help to be successful and perform so and I think that just goes, Why? How it's so important to fund these things so we can help. I think it's the have the people to do it. Yeah, we
Dr. Edson Filho 33:25
got to highlight that 100% right, not only when things are going wrong, but also, you know, when you how can you improve? Right? It's a mindset shift.
Alexis Reid 33:35
Yeah, absolutely. You guys are speaking our language, and I'm so excited. But I also had some when you were talking about, you know, all the different voices and all the different ingredients in my mind, I just saw a visual of, like, just like an overwhelmed, clouded, loud and noisy brain of the person who's receiving all of that information. You know, what are my expectations? What is my role? What is important to me? And why am I even pursuing this? Because I think everything gets so skewed together. And I was also imagining when you said the different ingredients, like, you know, when you put too many ingredients together, it can get messy, it can get disgusting, it can get discouraging. And it's like, you know, when you start something, especially with sports, a lot of the expectation and goals are, you know, let's learn some skills. Let's build teamwork. Let's understand what brings you joy, and as athletes or performers get better and better, or they get older, I think all of that gets really disorganized and discombobulated, and it is so important to have these resources available, or even know that they're available, to be able to take the time to quiet the noise, and to be able to have space to even explore who you are, why you care about it and what to do next.
Dr. Edson Filho 34:52
You know, this is an excellent point, because there is so many things out there, right and and that speaks to the importance of, you know, what I call pro. Active interventions, right? What are some of the things that can front load, right? We're doing some of this work in the lab. We know athletes going to get injury, right? Should I talk about it before it happens? We know groups go through ups and downs. That's why I call it group dynamics. It's dynamic, right? So can you talk about cohesion before? So what are some of the things you got to front load? And that goes hand in hand with the notion of periodization of psychological skills training and periodization of sports training, right? But obviously, everybody's different. You know, every season is different. There's some things you need to react to, but we have to do both, you need to front load and be proactive, and then you also need to react to whatever challenges are presenting. And your point about, yes, there's so many ingredients out there and and again, you're not you cannot mix everything. So when I study, you know, group dynamics and high performing things, there are some four or five key ingredients, right, cohesion, team, mental models, collective efficacy and coordination. Cohesion is why people come and stick together. Right? Collective efficacy is the idea of we can do it and we'll do it right. Coordination is being at the right place, at the right time, doing the right thing. And demand is knowledge. So these are four ingredients, for instance, right? It doesn't cover the entire literature on social psychology, of course, but you know, there are some of the things that successful things have,
Alexis Reid 36:30
like the foundation,
Dr. Edson Filho 36:31
exactly, and so, yeah. So when do you present these four ingredients for group dynamics interventions, or for individual, right individuals? When do you present that individual intervention? So this is important, and that's why you need to get people with expertise that are trained and that have the credentials that they have to have, and so on and so forth.
Gerald Reid 36:58
That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, it speaks to how intricate the field is, and how you guys really try to understand the nuances of these things. You're describing the ingredients for a team. I'm thinking as Carly's talking about self awareness and how there's so many different ways one performer can get to a flow state or get to their peak performance could look different for another athlete, because everyone's so different, as you're saying. So Alexis, when you're using the ingredients metaphor, I'm thinking that like each athlete is almost like a different meal, right, with different ingredients. And like in a high performing team, and a cohesive team is going to allow each meal to kind of come out the best it can come out the best it can come out because it's gonna have different ingredients, and you have a variety of different types of roles to take on. But and when I say ingredients for an individual athlete, I think you're all making a great point. It takes a self awareness to say the things that don't happen in a team environment happens in a one on one setting, which I really like. And sometimes it could happen in workshops, as you talked about, to help all the athletes reflect. But I absolutely love the opportunity for athletes to be like, wait. I can actually talk about what's going through my mind, because everything happens so fast. I mean, think about athletics now, and everything in life is fast, especially in athletics, right? Coaches have only so much time to get through their program, to get through what they're trying to do, their you know, their curriculum for you know what they want to teach and what they want to how they want to motivate, right? But that doesn't allow a lot of times for the athlete to be like, Wait, what about me? What's going through my head? What am I feeling? What am I distractions? What are my goals? What are my motivations? How do I visualize myself doing what I want to do? I worked with athletes too, with, like, as you're saying, Alexis, like, they're kind of confused about, you know, should I make this decision or that decision? And even just any type of, like, confusion or dissonance in their brain, could just, you know, in that split second stop them from from being more natural and in the flow of what they're doing. So I just love the fact that this field gives people the opportunity to really self reflect and have an open, Honest dialog about learning, whether in the in the positives or the challenges.
Dr. Carly Block 39:10
Yeah, absolutely. I think you said it so well. I think it goes really nicely what you talked about last week. Well, whenever you recorded your athlete mental health session is, then it's on top of that, the context and the pressure. Like, how does that also impact it, and impact these ingredients with the meal, and I think, with how quick it is, and then all these added pressures, especially as youth, youth athletes, right? Like, now, I feel like they're starting so early in order to get to college that I almost feel like sometimes their goals, and kind of coming to your point is they're already set up from them, so it's not allowing them to actually think or process or know that they're supposed to when they're being told by their parents or they're being told by coaches, like this is what you have to do. And so I wonder, curious, like your all thought too, is like how that also is impacting like their choice to make decisions, or even their awareness. Know of like, this is how it's supposed to be, versus I am, where it's like, if you just can focus on that part of being self aware, that's going to lead you to success. So I think that's also the biggest challenge for athletes and high performers, is just the context or the environment we're setting up for them. I love
Dr. Edson Filho 40:16
the point about self awareness, right? You need the self awareness to self regulate. There are team processes, but there is, there are system key issues, right? For instance, you know, we know that student athletes, they get, I know 20 hours of practice a week. I think that's but, you know, I don't know how much time is the voltage, the mental aspect of the game, right? Two things. One, research says that if coaches support the intervention, the intervention works better psychosocial element, right? So can the coach says, Look, you need to set time for your mental game. You need to go talk to the sports psychology consultant we have. That's one thing. But I also wonder about the broader, systemic right? Why, out of this training hours, there is not two hours devoted to the mental aspect of the game, right? Or, I don't know, you know, should we talk about the system key issue? Should talk about policy change. So there is the individual level of intervention, there is the group level of intervention, and that is systemic level of intervention. So I think we need to have this discussion. I don't have the answer, but I think part of the solution is not starting to talk about it in an athlete that come out and speak, you know, you know, against mental health stigma or what Kylie point out, very nice, right? We can always improve our performance, not only when things are going wrong, right? I want to optimize myself talk. I want to optimize my confidence. We need those voice at the individual level, and we need, you know, systemic changes as well. Do you
Dr. Carly Block 41:46
know what's so interesting with that is actually, a couple weeks ago, we Edson and I were in this all program director meeting, and a colleague brought up, and he's like, it's interesting. You know, there's athletic trainers that are required to be on every team. Why is there not a mental performance consultant or a sports psychologist on every team. And I it's like, how do we do better as a field to have that? And I think that just goes as a good example of 2026, you know, like, I it is such an interesting point of, why not like, why are we trying to advocate always like, this is why we need it, versus like, why is it not already within it? So, yeah, just another
Gerald Reid 42:20
interesting Well, thanks to you both for heading a program you know, to produce more people who can be doing
Alexis Reid 42:27
this work. Can Can I give you guys a soapbox for a minute? Slash, PSA, because I see this in my educational work all the time, right? I'll often get pulled into a school or a district and they're saying, you know, we have so many mental health challenges in this school and and, you know, the kids are really struggling to be motivated and be engaged, and it's making a lot of complications. And you know, we have this social, emotional learning program. We have these posters on the wall to talk about growth mindset, and you know, we help them to be exposed to this. And a lot of educators and schools are doing great work, don't get me wrong, but I think this is the same thing we're talking about at a team level, right? We can say and point out some of the challenges that exist, but we're not always prioritizing from the beginning, like we talk about proactively putting in place these supports that are not just like a person in an office or a title or a role that exists, but something that's fully integrated into the work that's happening for these athletes as a team, as a school, as an organization, as a business, as a as a band. You know, we could, we could put this in so many different contexts, but through the context of sport, I think it's so important, and I really want you guys to like, you know, talk to the audience for a moment, because I think this is so important for folks to hear what you see you've been researching, and you teach others about the value and importance of understanding, you know, the performance side, The mental skills training side, of integrating this in as much as we integrate in, you know, you got to go hit the gym and, you know, do your reps and go through your physical fitness program. The mental fitness side of things, I think, is just as valuable, sometimes more. Oh yeah, you're talking about injuries. We know that they're going to happen, but we don't really work on prevention or understanding of them, or even how to notice when something might be coming or you're pushing yourself too hard, totally, both physically and mentally. So I'm going to give you guys this space for a moment. Let's let's all get on that soapbox for the audience so that we can really think about the promotion of this not as like an add on or a separate but as an integration into the world of sport.
Gerald Reid 44:44
Yeah, I'm gonna say a few things, and I'm gonna leave it up to you, but um, and even, as you're saying, injuries, even like having a plan for how to support injured athletes. I mean, I see this. I see this in my practice. I'm sure you guys say is like when an athlete is injured, they struggle so much mentally. The A lot of times, because there's just no it's like a it's like the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about and nobody knows how to help or support. The athlete doesn't know what to do. They have no role in the team, right? So even being proactive in that realm as well. But you're saying such a good point Lex, is that, how do we integrate sports psychology into the culture, into the system, into the process. And there's three quick things I'll say about that. One is, it is a process, and I think we can all agree on that. So to think that you're going to have one workshop and everything's going to be great, and for the coach to understand it's so important for the coach to be part of modeling an understanding of that it is a process. I mean, self awareness doesn't happen like in one hour, right? Self awareness is like a lifelong process,
Gerald Reid 45:54
saying everything is interrelated. And I would say self awareness is collaborative. You know, when I work with my clients and patients like it is collaborative. I spend a lot of time listening more than I do talking. There's a reason for that, because it's collaborative. I can only understand another person by allowing them to explore and talk openly and honestly and listening to the themes and helping them and then third, how to integrate this into teams. Coach John McCarthy on our podcast, who's another professor and colleague of ours, he said it himself is like, once the culture reinforces itself, that's when you know you have a culture. You know, when it's just the players are reinforcing these aspects and understanding and normalizing it, and then it becomes just normal.
Alexis Reid 46:39
That's my favorite thing, when the when the teammates start to provide the support instead of always looking for another, when the teammates start to embody it, it's beautiful,
Dr. Carly Block 46:49
really, is. It's contagious. That's like, that collective emotions come into play because, like, they're all for this common goal and task working together totally.
Dr. Edson Filho 46:58
You know, to your point about the process, I think it's a process that we always have to continue to push it. And I think the reason is, if you look at the history, you know, the mental divide, the brain, the mind and the body, right? You can say, Look, I have a knee pain, but you cannot say, Look, I'm struggling for anxiety, right? And that comes from 1000s and 1000s of years ago, right? The Mind and Body divine. So that's one point that is this stigma that we got to continue to push back. So that's one thing. The other thing I see is we really need interdisciplinarity in science and practice, right? We got to work within our scope of practice, but we also got need to collaborate, and I think that's very important. Like sports psychology comes from research on Sports Science in Psychology, right? So, how we continue to collaborate? And some people talk about sports psychophysiology, we have a book about it, right? So, you know, maybe the future is sports psychophysiology. So how we continue to collaborate in terms of interdisciplinarity in the science and in the practice, and the other thing you need to have, what you call psychological informant environments by right? When you talk about the culture, right? What are some of the it's a science. There's people doing research and studying it. What are some of the elements? It might be goal setting, it might be task orientation. It might be how you relate to coach. It might be a covid stress balance so you don't burn out. You need to have people thinking about those environments in a psychological scientific back, back at way,
Gerald Reid 48:30
can I just say something about that? And I think it's so true. And a way of pointing that out for a coach too, is anytime you're giving an intervention, you want to understand the system first before you provide the intervention. So when you're saying it could be this, it could be that like that takes time to identify, like what is missing, what is the need in this system first, which takes time to you know, hopefully the sports psychology consultant, sports psychologist, can collaborate with the coach and the players to understand first before trying to help.
Dr. Carly Block 49:00
Absolutely, that's what I'm always telling our students, right? It's triangulation of information. You know, in order to conceptualize, we need information to know how to intervene, and so that goes talking to the coach, collaborate with them, learn their culture. That's crucial, because that's going to navigate how you introduce it or why you need it. What are your observations? That's also important. What behavioral, you know, observations are you seeing when they're working together? Are they all excited, like, with the teammates? Are they against each other? How are you also learning? Maybe using assessments like questionnaires, right to really get that information is crucial to actually do an effective job. And it also comes back then, like the importance of our field is the research, the theory is the frameworks that inform you know that triangulation of assessment. So I think, like that part you're absolutely right is you can't do the good work if you're not doing all that first that process
Gerald Reid 49:47
something I'm really curious about, because you've been steeped in this research and the theory for so long. What are some ideas or research findings or theories that really stand out to you as it relates to either team, cohesion, teamwork? Or, or just the performance of athletes and performers, like, what kind of things stand out like, of, you know, these are really important. We found that this is important as to the test of time and the test of research I can
Dr. Carly Block 50:11
start, I mean, I think one we already talked about, so I won't go into it, is bandora. I think that one has really framed, right, the sport confidence model, and it just simplifies it so well. Of like, what we need? Another big one that informs one of my research studies, and one that really helps, I think, understand how the environment and the individual and Alexis, I know your question earlier, right? Like, how do we really help or show the importance of mental performance is, we're not robots, right? And there's this environment and individual, and Lazarus transactional coping and stress model really talks, I don't know, I mean, also to the audience. I'll explain a little bit about it is like, it really talks, like, how do we cope, or how do we navigate stress? And it's the idea of how we're appraising, as humans, what the situation is in front of us. And so what that means we go through this appraisal process first, it's happening subconsciously. So we're not sitting there thinking, right, like, if there's a bear in front of us, we're not going through this like, oh, there's a bear, but we go through this two step process. One, like, is this important? Like, is this situation at hand showing me? And so the individual is going, Yes, like, if there's a bear in front of me, I'm gonna die. And so then next, at the same time, we go through these demands and resources. What do we have at hand? What are you able to handle with this environment? And so it might be right, like the demands are. I've never been in front of a bear. This bear looks hungry, you know, the cubs are nearby, and we're seeing like, you know, kind of think of it as a scale, and maybe we don't have the resources. And so when our brain and the individual is seeing at hand, we may view that as a threat, right? So this is the Lazarus goes of like, are we approaching it as a challenge or a threat? I love that.
Gerald Reid 51:51
So, so repeat that challenge or a threat. How we perceive our situations,
Dr. Carly Block 51:55
and really emphasize that, I think it comes back, yeah. So really with that, right? It comes back as individuals, what's our skill set, what's our ability to handle the situation at hand? And so that's where our brain is navigating, like, what are our demands and resources demands, right? Are things that, like the child the situation is throwing at us? And so if we're approaching it as a threat, it's more like they're outweighing our resources. We don't have that ability to fight a bear. We don't know. We never been trained. We don't have the bear spray. And because of that, that elicits that stress. It's how we're perceiving it versus like maybe the other scale we have the resources is, I'm a bear tamer. I have, I always carry my back up bear spray. I probably should have used a performance example. I think this is a very common one to explain it. And so again, that comes back with our skill set, where you know what, I have the tools and skills to handle this situation. This is a challenge. I think that goes nicely with that growth mindset, how we're approaching things. We know we can do it, or maybe we had a similar experience, and that might help reduce the stress experience. But I think what's really nice of why I love the series, it always comes back around, right? We're always learning from it. So, you know, maybe we get attacked by the bear and then it comes back. It's a demand, but we learn and elicits coping skills, right? Like, how are we coping? Who are we going to how are we reflecting? So that way we know when we're in this situation again, and so, and I'm going long explaining this model, that's to say of I think it applies so nicely with what athletes and performers are dealing with each day. We're always our context, environments always changing. There's new situations. But how are we as mental performance consultants? Are athletes gaining the awareness to know like, how are we filling up more resources to help kind of tip that scale so we can perceive it as a challenge, so it's more like that positive way of taking it on. I can do it. This is a challenge. Let's go right. Like stress could be a good thing if we're feeling it. And you know, I think that goes hand in hand with how we view emotions, how we re praise, right, or reframe and I think that's one of my favorite old studies. It's actually not a sport psych study. Brooks talks about how we like reappraise our anxiety as excitement, and it goes really nicely with this that, like, maybe with the skills, our demands are outweighing our resources, but we go, do you know what? Like, I'm excited. I'm feeling this way. I'm not anxious, I'm excited. And we can see. So I know I'm going long into this, but I think that's one of my favorites in terms of, like, tested time, like Lazarus from, like the 80s, 70s, where you're still seeing it applied, and it really takes into the real life account in sport and performance of the environment and the person, those go hand in hand.
Gerald Reid 54:31
I love what you're saying, and it ties really well to the idea of focusing on the task as your motivation, rather than your ego as the motivation. So that, if you can see this is the task I'm taking on, the challenge to approach this task, I'm not afraid of my ego being bruised, or my, you know, having my sense of self falling apart if I can't do this, it's more I'm focused on the task at hand, and I see it as a challenge. It kind of goes hand in hand with that really well, yeah, and how important that is in the. Kind of, in some ways it relates to flow, is that you're so absorbed in the task, rather than thinking about who's watching me, who's going to judge me. What does this mean about my career? What does this mean about, you know, like, if I make a mistake, what's going to happen, right? So it kind of, as you're saying, all this stuff goes hand in
Alexis Reid 55:14
hand, yeah, can I just tie this into education? Because my brain is like exploding right now, as you're saying, All this because I think behaviorism has actually gotten a really bad rap, especially in the educational realm, for a lot of really good reasons. But I think there's so much to be gained from coming back to this idea of thinking about how affect and emotion can impact things, and from a series of behaviors, interactions and experiences, we can actually learn how to better, like prepare ourselves and from a universal design for learning perspective, UDL, for the educators out there listening, you know, this is a big part of what we talk about in terms of the affective network, of how our brain is feeling and assessing these demands, and even when we have the skills, We can link this back to athletics, is again too, even if we have the skills and we performed in this way before, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to come directly online in the future. And this is some of that, like conflicting feeling that I think a lot of people and teams feel like, how can we have been this good before and now perform at this level that is just so subpar from what our expectations are, and how do we actually like reconcile that and know what to do? So I'm going to pitch this to you guys, because from the universal design for learning perspective, it's not just about fixing an individual. It's more about understanding the environment, like you said with PI right, the psychological influences in the environment. How do we actually set up and design the environment to best support these anticipated needs?
Dr. Carly Block 56:50
Yeah, a research talks about like, really building a resilient team, the importance of challenge and support. And I think that makes so much sense into this environment, like, how are and goes nicely. I guess, with what we're saying is, how are we building an environment where they are being challenged, they are learning on their own, growing on their own, right, building that self awareness. But how are we making sure we're giving them the support and feedback? Yeah? Hunter, is that right? So good, yeah? So important. Yeah, oh my gosh, yes. And so I think that goes with it. Like, how are we creating these in real life, right? Like, we're not always we're going to keep it stagnant if we're not giving challenge, like they're only getting feedback, like, how are people growing? But also, if it's too challenging, that's where burnout leads, or less, you know, lack of enjoyment or fear. So how are we making sure we're doing both, to really set up someone for success. So that way, when a new challenge comes up, they have feedback, they have the resources. They can come back to it. And I think you've said it really well when you're like, how do we not it's not just physical, it's mental. I think you just gave that example right there of how important that mental side is, because it's up to the individual to navigate that environment and how
Gerald Reid 57:58
feedback is given from a coach and how an athlete gives them self feedback really matters. You can get very accurate feedback, but if it's not received in an emotional way, if the emotions get in the way, if people feel threat or feel like this is not, you know, if they feel threatened by it for whatever reason like that, that accurate feedback is not going to do anything. It's not going to be digested, it's not going to be integrated. And like, at the end of the day, everything is feedback. I mean, we, you know, we work with people. Sometimes they're like, you get no feedback sometimes. And it's like, well, they're terrible.
Alexis Reid 58:31
Feedback doesn't actually make sense.
Gerald Reid 58:33
And then they doubt themselves, because when you have someone who's in the position of power, like, you rely on them because you're, you know, you you're younger, and you're kind of us, you know, subordinate to someone in power who's supposed to have the answers right? And coaches don't have all the answers, and they're not supposed to. But like, when I think sometimes athletes can, like, if they don't have that accurate feedback that's couched in supportive environment, they can almost like, gaslight themselves or feel badly and not trust themselves, because they're like, they don't know what to think.
Alexis Reid 59:04
I'm gonna give you guys a pitch too, because I think this is, this is also the importance of your work and your expertise, is you guys become the bridge of sometimes helping to translate what the coach's intentions are to the athlete, right? Because Coach Mac said this really well, you know, he became a really great coach. He said when he learned more about developmental psychology and positive psychology and understanding education, because essentially, coaching is about understanding people, teaching and learning and for the work you all do, it's like you become that bridge to help to integrate a lot of these messages that sometimes can get convoluted or confused. You know, sometimes unintentionally, right we only know what we know, so coaches and athletes, parents, educators, mentors, you know, sometimes they're giving great advice, but not always at the right time, in the right way, in the right context, in the right context,
Dr. Edson Filho 59:56
right feedback is crucial. You know, by definition. Show you don't learn without feedback. There is, you know, learning, that permanent change that happens. Sometimes you don't see it be in behavior, but you see, you know, in the brain. So there is a science of feedback, and I think people should study it, no, but your question before you know, some topics that kind of resist that time or is still there? There are many, right? If you get a handbook of sports like there are many chapters, but I think two that I highlight leadership, I tell my students and everybody, look, you really got to study leadership. Not not just really abstract. You got to really study it. There is no there is autocratic, democratic, transactional, authentic. There is so many different models, and I believe one person can make a big difference, right? You know one person a leadership position. You hire the right person that impacts the entire program. So leadership is a big one, because it impacts all those key group process, right? You find a psychological, informative environment. So that's one. The other one is transitions. You get injured, you move serious, you get deselected, you go to the Olympics, you go transitions, up, right? Yeah. So you're always going through transitions. As long as they're leaving, there's ups and downs, right? I think about this all the time, so you need to, you know, there is this philosophy that I love, that love that says, Look, ping, knocks on everybody's door, right? We're gonna, we're gonna face difficult transitions. And are we prepared for those? Can we prepare for those? And sometimes it can, and sometimes we overestimate our ability to bounce back. So we gotta be thinking about leadership, about preparing people for transitions. And one topic that comes often, that, you know, I think, is the most steady topic, which is anxiety, right? People get anxious. And in sports, they get anxious because they care, right? It's important. So one of the ways to deal with that, should prepare, right? You're anxious for a math test, you study, you feel better about it, right? You'll see some good athletes giving interviews who had a really very good week. You're feeling confident, right? So preparation is important, but the other part of the equation is, if you really care, you're going to be a little anxious, right? So how to embrace that? Right? People always say, No, pressure is a privilege, and whatnot. But, you know, I don't want to oversimplify. Anxiety come from many places, but I think that's one topic you continue to see. That's one of the main things that people usually come to you for the first place, and then, as everything's connected, say, oh, that's connected here and there. And you explore that. But if I could bet on three topics, I would say, get good leaders. I used to work with this coach, and he said, Look, you cannot make a mistake with your coaching staff, right? You have to hire the right people. And the second one against the transitions piece. And then, you know, as long as if you're growing, you're putting yourself in those zone of proximal development, you're gonna have those anxious moments and and and
Alexis Reid 1:03:00
how you move forward. Those are the sweet spots, in my opinion, that's where we actually learn and we become better, yes, and I, you know, my my clients and students, they call them Alexis isms. One of my Alexis isms is, we can't always predict, but we could prepare, right? And I think you're speaking so much to that, you know, we can't always predict exactly what's going to happen, but we can do the preparation. We could do the work. We can have the practice that allows for us to do so again, practice, physically and mentally. We need to do these visualization skills. So Gerald, you might have something else on your mind, but I'm I'm really curious, as we're coming to a close on things, can you share some of the techniques that you have found supportive and helpful. We've talked about them through the research on what helps to build team dynamics and cohesion. Can we talk a little bit more? I am thinking in my head about my knowledge of sports psychology, of like, some of the mechanisms for change and support that you offer to some of the athletes that you work with, where you train the students that are in the program about, yeah,
Dr. Carly Block 1:04:01
I'm happy to take it. Take it away. So one of my things I like to say, you can steal it everybody is, I have my three A's when I work with this is a doc block. A doc block is brought to you by dock. Let's, let's quote that. So my three A's is first awareness, right? We have to build awareness. And so that comes, like, with my skills, of questions, really using more of like that CBT approach of really understanding, like, when you have a good performance, what are things that are going well? What are you feeling? What are you thinking? Which most of the time they go I don't know, nothing's going through my head. What's happening? Like, let's really explore and build awareness of what's going well, so we can understand the skill set, or understand, with my role, what skills to include.
Gerald Reid 1:04:45
I want to say too with the awareness is, what are they not thinking about?
Dr. Carly Block 1:04:48
Exactly? Oh, I love that. What are you not thinking about? I'm gonna steal
Alexis Reid 1:04:54
that from you. This is why we come together.
Dr. Carly Block 1:04:57
I. And that same thing, like, what about what's going poorly? And so with that of when I'm understanding, having them reflect, to build that awareness, moves into my acknowledgement stage. So right now, once they have that awareness, they're acknowledging, do they want to do something about it or not? So when they're in a game, and let's say they have all this awareness that when I make a mistake, that's when I start going down this negative spiral. Like, now my team, I'm letting them down. I'm getting worse, and then it affects their performance in return. That way, they're now having the awareness to know they're going through that spiral, and they have that choice, do I want to do something, or do I not? That's that change, right? And so it's up to them, and that's where that action states they can do nothing, right? We're human, like, sometimes we don't have that ability to be aware all the time, especially when the environment is changing, or maybe we too, and so that's where that action is, and that's where the mental skills and I feel like it really just comes back, like we always say, the individual and their needs, but I can draw back from what we I love how you said it, Jerry. Like, self awareness is a collaboration. Is when I'm working with athletes, I can learn like, well, what are those skills? What's their mental toolbox that they already have? Like, very strength based. I really love to learn because that's what's going to set them up for success and so preparing them, like with their pre performance. My favorite is really those focus cues and behavioral things, like when they're in the moment. My typical goal to is, let's come up with, like, a finger tap one of my research like, one of the goalie participants said they do this, like, finger switch, which they're flushing down the toilet, and that's the way, like that they're already triggering, like, let's do a reset. And so I feel like that's such a great way in the moment. But the work has already started with those three A's prior that they're trained to know. So that's always a good go to common, like with my three A's. I think two is, like the preparation, like, how do we talk? We didn't even talk. I know we we can do like, another five hours with this self talk is a huge one. I think that's also the one we see with research over time, the changes, realizing there's not one way. It's not positive and negative, it's what's best for you to talk to yourself. So learning those and then implementing it in to be successful. I can go on with so many different mental skills, but I feel like those are my go to but it really depends on my three A's that helped me learn on what's best to help them. So if you're listening and come see me, but at the same time, I think for yourself, grow that awareness. Learn what's helping you and what's hurting you. Acknowledge like it's up to you to actually change it, right? Like, what's in your control, to actually switch it and then do that change. And that's how you're
Alexis Reid 1:07:26
going to learn for next time to continue building that awareness. I love the flushing the TED last so you know the goldfish mentality,
Dr. Carly Block 1:07:38
that's also my TV show. No, I know
Alexis Reid 1:07:41
you really can adopt but, but there's a science behind it. I think that's the important message, too, that, like, these are great little mechanisms and tools, but they're a lot of what you all are doing and implementing is so research heavy and really science backed, you know, I think, to
Dr. Edson Filho 1:07:55
me, is really the need assessment is very important, right? I want an understanding of the whys and the whats and the whos. And from there, there is so many things that can develop, but understanding their goals, right? What they do in sports, because no goal setting is connected with confidence. Dr block said, before you know, those mastering experience right, to set goals for that is in the definition of motivation. Direction of effort is in the definition of leadership, leading people
Gerald Reid 1:08:22
towards a goal. Can I just point this out real quick about what you're saying when you're saying set goals oftentimes, I want to see if you agree with this. Athletes are on a team, and they think that their goal is just what their coach says, the team goal is, but they don't set individual goals for themselves that allow them to get to where they want to be, how to or how
Dr. Edson Filho 1:08:41
to, I'm so happy you pointed. I know it's boring to discuss, you know, goal setting. No, no. I think athletes think it's boring. It's boring. So thanks for the plugin. But it's very important, you know, because a lot of self regulation came from understanding our goals, that comes from understanding our values. But I think the broader point is no understanding that need assessment. I think it's very important, and because I've done some research, you know, different sports have different performance challenges, right? For instance, like, if you're running a marathon, hey, it's hard to run for all those hours, right? We study like jugglers. You know, it's hard to practice alone. You know, when you get burned, it's hard to run a marathon, it's hard to run a marathon, it's hard to juggle. So, right? What are some of those specific challenges? I think it is important to understand, but I don't want want to echo what Dr block said about you know that the self talk? You know, I think the way you talk to yourself is very important. And in you know, one of the things that is important sometimes you don't need to, you know, to it's important that perhaps the inner critical voice, if you can turn it down a little bit, right? Because sometimes that voice is coming from other places, right? Can it be a little bit. You know, more compassionate towards yourself. There is a lot of new research on self compassion. So in short, that need assessment that inform those goals you understand, and I think the self talk are important, and at the group level, you know, you also gotta, you know, one of the most steady topics is cohesion, for a reason, right?
Gerald Reid 1:10:22
So, yes, teams that can work well together. What a beautiful thing that is when it happens.
Alexis Reid 1:10:28
Jerry, how about you favorite, favorite technique or mental?
Gerald Reid 1:10:31
Yeah. Well, first of all, I want to just set the stage and say, like, let's normalize this, that even the best athletes go through exactly what you're saying. There's no athlete on Earth ever who has not had to develop some sort of mental repertoire to deal with challenges and to do all the things we're talking about in their own way. Right? So let's just normalize that everybody uses this, and different people may not even think about it. So that's why we have people like ourselves to help, you know, to help support it,
Alexis Reid 1:10:58
and also that, you know, a lot of athletes, especially, use music as a way to, like, get out of their heads. That's not the only thing, right? There's a reminder that like, like, you said, there's a repertoire of tools, right? I work with so many people. I'm like, Well, what helps? And they're like, Well, I just blast my music. Awesome.
Dr. Carly Block 1:11:22
Okay? And there we go. I also just
Gerald Reid 1:11:25
saw like a like a news outlet interview about how, like, wearing these headphones might actually be really bad for our
Alexis Reid 1:11:37
newly developed tinnitus
Gerald Reid 1:11:40
every time an athlete's on TV pre game in the locker room, they got those headphones and just maybe look into it a
Alexis Reid 1:11:46
little bit,
Gerald Reid 1:11:47
especially if it's loud.
Alexis Reid 1:11:48
Yeah, okay. But what else? Because jerepe is all about the musical aspect of the jerem, getting in the mindset and but what else is helpful?
Gerald Reid 1:11:56
Well, I'm just gonna make a quick joke. You mentioned the inner critic. I think we all have an inner critic. And one of my patients, he was talking about his inner critic, and we have a really good relationship. So this, this landed the right way, but we were kind of summarizing our session. Because I always summarize our session, like, what are your takeaways from today? And I go, he said a few things. I said, Yep, that's great. I go, you forgot one. He goes, what is it? I go, always listen to your inner critic. He starts laughing, just to be clear, that was sarcasm. Let me bring it together. Part of my job, and this comes from both the clinical and the sport psychology practices changing our relationship with our thoughts. I think a lot of times, we have thoughts that code through our head. Some we're thinking consciously. Some are just intrusive. They just pop on our head. But I think that as humans, we tend to think, well, it's in our head. It must mean something. Why else would it be in my head? If it didn't mean something important, I have to make meaning out of it. And the reality is that, like, everybody has thoughts, some thoughts don't even mean anything. They're just silly thoughts, or they're just kind of worries or whatever. And part of the training is like, well, not every thought that goes through your head is important. You don't have to prioritize it. You don't have to latch on to it or attach it. This comes from kind of the mindfulness. So, as you're saying, like, it's so normal to have worries and emotions and anxiety. That's part of any type. As you said, that's in because people care. And so the idea is to, you know, you can allow thoughts to come and go in your mind. You don't have to latch on to them and refocus what you want to focus on. Doesn't mean it's going to be perfect. Doesn't mean you're going to be like a Zen Buddhist monk, you know? But it doesn't mean that you can practice and get used to, not only in your sport, but in everyday life, practice noticing, oh, I'm having, like, this random thought or this worry in my head. I don't need to keep thinking. I can just, like, let it go by and maybe not even fight against it. I think some people get so like, Oh, my God, I have this thought in my head. I got to get rid of it, and you fight against it. And it actually kind of makes it worse, kind of like the elephant in a room. Keep thinking about it more and more and more. So that's that tends to be a pretty helpful technique for helping performers. And as you're saying, the music that I do, I got on stage for the first time. I'm like, 41 years old. The first time I got on stage, I'm like, Okay, I got to practice what I preach, like, fall apart exactly, and what I did for myself, at least, you know, just an antidote. I'm like, You know what? I love these songs that I wrote. I care about them deeply. I'm going to focus completely on just the song itself and embracing the song. I'm not going to think about what people think about it, because the end of the day, I care about it. And that really helped me to become and people were like, Wow, how'd you stay so calm for the first time getting on stage? I'm like, Well, I just focused on what I was doing and just that's what mattered to me.
Dr. Carly Block 1:14:47
Yeah, that goes really well with the passion that we just talked about earlier, right? Like, full circling, if we do it from passion and what excites us and means to us, I hear especially the performance side too. It's like, I'm making something beautiful. Yeah, and I wanted my intentions to share it with the world, which it's always hard to do, but when you can do it, that's where
Gerald Reid 1:15:06
I think I have the benefit of not doing that my whole life, where I might have been burnt out. And as you're saying, everything's related, so if it doesn't become a passion over time, maybe, like, the burnout could prevent that from happening. Yeah, absolutely. You know,
Dr. Edson Filho 1:15:18
quickly the burnout is a topic that's so important, right? And it can come from so many different places. And that's one of the things, you know, I try to tell the students, look, it can come from so many different places, right? There is many theories of burnout out there. Not only one, there's many, yeah, sure. And you know, one is recovery, stress, balance, too much stress, poor recovery. The other one is entrapment. You feel interrupted, meaning you know you want to leave that environment, but you feel you can't, because you have the coach, you have a scholarship, your parents invested so much
Gerald Reid 1:15:49
people down. Yeah,
Dr. Edson Filho 1:15:52
that is the approach for motivation, self determination theory. But there is so many other theories of motivation as well. But I think, I think it's really important, you know, that we discuss burnout for youth athletes in higher performing settings, because people, as Dr block was saying they, they used to be passionate about something, and then all of a sudden, you know, sometimes, over time, that disappears. And if you have those psychological informant environments. We can, you know, we can keep people in sports and music and not, not you know to be the best performers out there, but you know to, you know, to keep living their passions, find joy, to find joy, yes,
Gerald Reid 1:16:35
well and to to what you said at the end was so, so important. So, so important is that to get to the highest like, to become an Olympian, or to get to the highest point, if you don't get there, it's not a failure, right? I think there's so much wrapped up, and I have to get to this level, and if it's not, then it's all for nothing, and I'm letting everyone down, right? And your last point is so important, is that, like, if we can have psychologically informed environments and supports that the whole journey, in of itself, could be meaningful and feel more balanced. You're not just kind of like trying to get to the top of the mountain, and if you get there, you don't. It's like even people who make it to the top. By the way, Michael Jordan was being interviewed recently on CBS Sunday Morning because he just, I don't know something about a racing team that he's involved in, and the Gale King, the interviewer asked him, you know, what is the cost of trying to be so darn competitive? Because, like, he's the most competitive person, like, in a scary way, it's kind of scary. And and he said, and they both looked at each other, his race car driver, or whoever it is, and himself. They're like, well, relationships. They both admitted it, right? Like, if you're that competitive, that fixated on being a winner all the time, it will take a toll on something, yeah, and that's the best of the best. He's one of the best. And, you know, he admits it. It's like it takes toll in relationships. And then what do you have? You get a trophy, and then what you're not even satisfied with it.
Alexis Reid 1:18:01
So there's like three topics we're going to turn into other episodes and have you guys back to talk about burnout, thinking about the cost of being the best and performing at the highest level, because there is a cost to that, too, as you said. And going back to the happiness longevity research, we can think about how relationships and connections are the number one thing that's come from so much research over so many years. And I think that's the beauty of team cohesion and working in sports and athletics, is we get to come together as a team, as we are today,
Dr. Edson Filho 1:18:32
if I may. I believe in sports so much, and I say that because, you know, there is a, of course, is what has very problematic. There is a little can be you can have burnout, there is trauma. But I think, you know, really need to put the message that, you know, sports came it to me personally, you know, that's how I got my job. That's how I met my wife. You know, I travel so many different countries, and I was a little shy, but I played soccer, I made friendships. So you know, can you also emphasize that sports a good thing? I hear so many people saying that sports so bad. The more I study sport, the less I want to be involved with it. And I think, oh, sport is so good. You cannot be naive about it. But it cannot be naive about sports. You cannot be naive about the real estate market or the food you cannot be naive about anything. You got to use critical thinking skills, right? But I think it's an important message that you know, let's believe in sports. Let's have hope it can be good. Can be protective for kids, and of course, of course, it has many negative things as well, but that's for everything life. So you just
Alexis Reid 1:19:40
answered our final question that we ask everybody, what do you what do you hope for in the future? And also, please share, you know, how folks can find you and something you're working on that they can learn more about your work?
Dr. Carly Block 1:19:52
Yeah. I mean, I think Edson said it really well, right? Like, how do we see the good in it? And you said it in the last episode, too. Of like, it's like, its own, like. And culture in itself. But I think my hope is like, continue building awareness and knowledge like there are, you know, how do we create the access to the resources? There's people out there. And I think my hope is that maybe, like what we heard from my colleague, is that one day, everyone will have a mental performance consultant or be aware of that. It's not just when something's going wrong, but something's going right? And I know we not a whole other conversation, but we were talking about it yesterday. It's like with research, right? We as researchers can only do as much as you know, our participants are willing to participate in. So how do we collaborate on that front as well, like, tie the applied work back to research. And if I stole that from you, talk more, because it was a really, it really it really stuck with me after we talked about it. And then to find me, you can find me on view's website, Boston University, Boston University. Sorry, but I also do have my own private practice where I'm still taking clients, specifically working on mental performance. I don't just work with athletes, actually, I also work with those in business. So if you're a CEO or, you know, you just want to be better and perform and work performance artists, right? Musicians, dancers, right? I'm also happy to talk more. You can email me. Do I put my email? So happy to work. I work virtually as well. So doesn't have to be in Boston.
Dr. Edson Filho 1:21:20
I do want to elevate, you know, Carly's point. I was at a conference the other day, and the keynote was saying why we need to do more research underrepresented people, which is 100% true, but a lot of the young generation, they want to do the research. They want to study women in sports and international students, but it's hard to get the data right. So can we also have people raising their hands? Look, I will participate in this, this study, because that's very important. Connected to that. I think I, you know, I've seen, I've been Sport Science for, I don't know, 20 plus years, too many years now, but, you know, continue to see it as a science to practice, because that will open many doors. If you go to every Olympic team has a physician, because there is science backing up. Look, every you know, they might have, you know, a physical therapist, because there is science backing up. Of course, you know, in psychology, there's a lot of the relational component, which a lot of the job. But can we also, you know, there is many theories of motivation. There is many things that lead to confidence. I think if you have that, and how do we evaluate our work? I think that's going to say, well, we need that input, right? How that's going to look like? You know, that is different, you know, therapeutic alliance and working relationships, right? It might look different, you know, if you go into the Olympics if you work in a youth setting, but having that science your practice knowledge will open doors beautifully.
Alexis Reid 1:22:47
Said both of you.
Gerald Reid 1:22:49
Well, thank you both so much. This has been such a joy, and most of all, thank you for your service and your professions and your careers, and like you're dedicated to helping people perform better and also just enjoy what they're doing more and feel more grounded while they do it. I don't you know what's better than that. It's so important. And the students are very fortunate to have you, you know, lead the program. It's such an amazing program, and they work their butts off. They sure do, but they get so much out of it, and so grateful to have you as colleagues, and it's been this has been so amazing, and hopefully we'll do
Alexis Reid 1:23:24
something else like this. Again, I'm going to put one more plug in for the three of you at BU because I've met a lot of your students, and they just rave about all of you, and the work that they're doing is inspired by the passion, the joy and the love that you put into the work that you do. So thank you all. Appreciate you being here. Thank you for having
Dr. Carly Block 1:23:40
us and thank you for doing this podcast. I think it's so important and awesome way to learn from an educational standpoint.
Dr. Edson Filho 1:23:46
So thank you both. Thank you so much. You know everything's connected. Thank you for connecting so many dots. Right?
Gerald Reid
Thanks for tuning in to the Reid Connect-ED podcast. Please remember that this is a podcast intended to educate and share ideas, but it is not a substitute for professional care that may be beneficial to you at different points of your life. If you are needed support, please contact your primary care physician, local hospital, educational institution, or support staff at your place of employment to seek out referrals for what may be most helpful for you. ideas shared here have been shaped by many years of training, incredible mentors research theory, evidence based practices and our work with individuals over the years, but it's not intended to represent the opinions of those we work with or who we are affiliated with. The reconnected podcast is hosted by siblings Alexis Reid and Dr. Gerald Reid. Original music is written and recorded by Gerald Reid (www.Jerapy.com) recording was done by Cyber Sound Studios. If you want to follow along on this journey with us the Reid Connect-ED podcast. we'll be releasing new episodes every two weeks each season so please subscribe for updates and notifications. Feel free to also follow us on Instagram @ReidConnectEdPodcast that's @ReidconnectEdPodcast and Twitter @ReidconnectEd. We are grateful for you joining us and look forward future episodes. In the meanwhile be curious, be open, and be well.
S8 E1: Sport and Performance Psychology w/ Dr. Edson Filho and Dr. Carly Block
In this episode, we are joined by two professors from Boston University’s Wheelock College of Education who specialize in the research and practice of sport and performance psychology - Dr. Edson Filho and Dr. Carly Block. We discuss a number of topics relative the mental side of performance; starting with the field of sport & performance psychology and it’s practitioners, the idea of Flow, perfectionism in performance, the interconnection between different psychology processes like goal setting and motivation, confidence and coping with stress, mental skills training, team cohesion, self-awareness, the integration of sport psychology into performance systems and teams, and more! We hope that this episode provides a depth and breadth of understanding about how sport psychology principles and practitioners can be utilized in performance settings, not just in sports.
Summary
What is Sport & Performance Psychology?
Concepts and theories from the field
Mental performance skills
Integrating sport psychology into systems
How athletes and performers benefit from sessions w/sport psychology consultants
Be curious. Be Open. Be well.
The Reid Connect-Ed Podcast is hosted by Siblings, educational therapist, Alexis Reid, M.A. and licensed psychologist, Dr. Gerald Reid, produced by CyberSound Recording Studios, and original music is written and recorded by www.Jerapy.com
*Please note that different practitioners may have different opinions- this is our perspective and is intended to educate you on what may be possible.
